Islamic Banks in Malaysia main intention is not to help Muslims in lessen their burden financially, but to make them to have more debt.. Their intention is merely profit oriented.. Thus, Islamic Banking Institution in Malaysia is not a true Islamic Banking..
kalau la aku sambung stadi, aku akan buat tajuk thesis aku mcm kat atas nie.. aku ada byk reason nape aku cakap mcm tue.. muahaha.. aku x kisah kalau ada bank nak kritik.. tapi, inilah hakikat.. percaya atau tak, org masih x dapat bezakan antara bank konvensional, atau bank islam.. xde beza.. yang org tau beza cuma akad.. tapi, hakikat sebenar, produk bank2 islam adalah lebih baik, malah lebih mulia.. cuma.. heh..
"Oi, cuma apa? cakap la abiskan.."
haha.. yang ini sensitif sket.. takpe.. untuk kita cuba fikir2kan.. pada pendapat aku, bank2 di mesia nie, diorang tak sanggup nak tanggung rugi.. so, diorang x brani nak memprodukkan financial produk yang bleh menyebabkan diorg rugi.. x caya, cuba ko belek satu2 product yang diorang offer.. ada x yang kata bank akan tanggung kerugian bersama ngan customer dia?
aku rasa nak bgtau nie je dulu.. akan datang, kalau korang nak dengar lagi keluhan dan rasa x puas hati aku (dari segi teoritical dan praktical).. aku akan cerita lagi.. tapi, atas permintaan sahaja.. haha (bajet best)..
fikir la.. k..
20 comments:
mmg bajet best...
hi malek!!!
in some ways, i agree and dont agree with u.. i agree with u when it comes to the point that islamic bank is not being so islamic..
but i disagree with u when u mentioned that the Islamic banks in Malaysia are not practicing the true Islamic ways of doing businesses...
FYI, ALL ISLAMIC BANKS IN THE WORLD are not being that islamic as they claim to be.. in fact, there is none islamic bank in the world that practices the true teaching of the quran when it comes to muamalat.. the reason being is, islamic bank is like an infant/toddler compared to the conventional banking system... plus, there isnt really a clear guideline being thought about by Nabi, sahabat2 or the 4 school of thoughts when it comes to the banking operations..
In Islam, the rules and guidelines given about muamalat is quite vague and the muamalat issues brought up are so ancient and traditional that they dont actually fit/ go well with the current global economic banking system..
for example, did nabi or those scholars ever come across sukuk/securitization? did they ever deal with fractinal reserve banking system? did the previous scholars ever deal with stocks? what im trying to convey is that the business in those golden days were so different than it is now..
ok, korang mesti rebut cakap ibadah pon takde actual guideline utk solat.. the thing is, when it comes to solat, solat nih sama je setiap masa..setiap zaman.. muamalat pulak berubah2..
the thing is, our global financial system is so complex that to certain extend the hukum ruled out by the previous ulama/scholars need to be revised.. but of coz im talking about those hukum that are not exact in the quran and hadith la. and since most hukum on muamalat are quite vague ..so, its not quite fair to say that islamic banking is not truly islamic. but of coz there are apparent hukums on muamalat.. but there are not as many as those in other matters.
for example: in the quran riba' is haram.. and nabi has mentioned that there are lotsa types of riba.. but did he ever declare each of the type of riba?
another issue is we dont really have expertise in islamic banking.. we have muslim scholars all over the world but they are of coz experts in hukum hakam/legal side only..but they dont actually understand how the banking/ ecnomic system works.. and when it comes to muamalat only those who practise and learn it know whats going on in it..
on the other hand, we have those bankers/ economists/ accountants/ u name it.. but they dont know hukums..
in short, we need to groom scholars that actually know and learn from both sides...
so for now, lets give islamic banking a chance.. and im sure after 50 years and after these mistakes that we've made or will be making... islamic banking in malaysia or outside malaysia will be better and improved...
"Collective maslahah is greater than individual maslahah"
Banks have to offer that kind of 'product' as to be competitive..
I'm much agree with hanna..
Hanna, jd sifu kite leh? (^o,^)
But for the banks that adopt islamic bank, they have to be pretty transparent in dealing with customers.. Must have to explain everything especially when it comes into 'money'..
Cth: Let say customer dah choose one product e.g islamic credit or car financing or house financing,bank shud disclose the cost that would be incurred pd masa akn dtg.. baper percent yg akn di caj,etc..
Let customers know before they agree to enter into that product..
Supaya tak timbul rasa teraniaya, what so ever..
mana reply ko ni encik abd malik?
Ehmm.. apa yg malik maksudkan adalah dari segi perkongsian kerugian. Kalu percentage keuntungan bank jer nak lebih, tapi kerugian?
Aku bagi contoh mudah. Personal loan. Aku sendiri alami sebab nak support Islamic Bank
Principle: 41,000
Keuntungan: 30,750
Total: 71,750
Tempoh: 180 bulan
Monthly: 432
Kalu katakanlah after one year aku ada duit dan nak byr blik in total, bank tu ckp aku kena byr full tolak hibah 2 bulan? OMG!!! What a nonsense!! hibah 864 jer.. utk tempoh 15 tahun aku nak settle dlm masa setahun dapat hibah 864 jer.. kena byr 65,702... gemukla bank tu..
Conventional bank, aku kena bayr principle jer tau which is 41K sebab tahun pertama installment tu sebagai interest.. beza 24,000 tu bank wat apa yer? Takkan nak claim untung sebab tipu customers. Masa sebelum pinjam cakap lain, dah pinjam ckp lain.. liar.. (Aku bukan nak sokong atau nak amik. Juz nak wat comparison)..
Di mana keadilan kalau cam ni? Motif? Kalu org berniaga pun boleh minta tawar menawar.. tak salah.. kalu nak guna loan Qardul Hassan max 5 ribu jer.. susah la cam ni pas tu nak kena byr cepat kalu tak ada penalti plak.. penalti tu bukan ala2 riba gak ker? hmm.. baik tak payah guna konsep Qardhul Hassan.. cari konsep lain.. haha.. juz sharing my experience, nothing more or less..
Hanna,
I agree with you.. tapi, byk benda.. byk sgt2 yang bank nie masih amik kesempatan.. coz diorang masih menggunakan conventional system which is not right.. apa yang suhaimi ckp tue is the real what happen.. and aku rasa aku pun akan kena benda yang sama.. in other word, bila kita hutang banyak, diorang bleh buat untung giler2, walaupun kita nak bayar cepat.. come on, diorang bukan x bleh nak cari org lain untuk buat profit balik.. kita nak lepas dari belenggu hutang pun susah..
and yes, masa adalah element yang sangat diperlukan oleh bank untuk perbaiki.. tapi, benda yang jelas mcm nie x bleh nak trus buat ke? come on.. ko dah untung 10 bulan, then ko nak untung untuk 300 bulan akan datang? melampau.. langsung xde daya nak tolong org supaya x berhutang.. mcm mana x ramai yang muflis? mcm mana nak suh org maju, dengan belenggu hutang jek???
others.. thanks 4 ur comment..
farah..
rasanya bank pun dah transparent.. tapi mungkin kita rasa x cukup transparent.. even transparent pun, tapi, kalau interest dia bantai sampai 20/30 times bigger dari conventional.. hampas gak..
bank islam ada bg product yang lagi competative dari conventional ke? i wonder what..
by the way hanna..
suppose the bank should give more training.. tapi.. aku rasa prob dia ada 2, satu samada yang dah keje malas nak stadi lagi.. atau, diorang mmg klu dah explain juta kali pun x faham.. coz mind set dah kata nak profit jek..
Betul En Malik.. agreed..
Masa blaja dulu ada sorang Professor ni ckp, Islamic Bank kat mesia ni suke sgt adopt conventional products dan jadikan Islamic products. There are two reasons:
1. Sebab taknak kejutkan masyarakat umum yg dah biasa dgn conventional product so that dorang boleh nampak Islamic banking tu tawarkan produk yg ada dlm conventional tapi lebih Islamic. Dlm masa yg sama, along the way boleh diubah2 dan diperbaiki.
2. Utk nampakkan Islamic product lebih menguntungkan dan semua conventional product akan adopt Islamic product ni. Somehow dah berjaya sebab dah byk bank ada duo functional, Islamic and conventional. Rasionalnya, bila Islamic product dah dominant dlm market, then baru leh ubah.
My view:
Yes, these two reason are essential move to familiarize Islamic product in the market. Tapi aku rasa, bukan dominasi yang kita nak. Islam ni mudah dan menyenangkan. Tujuan utama diharamkan riba kerana MEMBEBANKAN... kalu dah kaut untung lebih besar dari riba, tak membebankan ker? Macam jual pen yang harga RM 1 jadi RM 100 jer. Product sama tapi lebih mahal. Memang halal, tapi seolah2 muamalat tu dimanipulasi utk menghalalkan jer product sedia ada. Rasanya so far, Islamic bank kat mesia ni tak ada Primary product yang outstanding dan tidak meniru mana2 conventional product. Cuba amik contoh Islamic bank dari middle east.. why they can provide better.. bila dorang nak masuk pasaran mesia, tak bagi kerana takut ganggu gugat Islamic Bank kat mesia ni konon. Come on la, nak tegakkan Islam OR Nak UNTUNG BYK.. untung ckit2 sudah.. Kalu dah kita tak tahu, let's middle east bank tunjuk ajar.. merge ker, sharing ker, dll. Haha.. aku ckp tau la.. Tak salah express idea..
Anyway, ada la juga pembaharuan dlm Islamic bank kat mesia ni. Tahniah dan moga improve. Apa salah kalu mana2 customer (mcm aku) nak wat pyment awal, recalculate balik hibah yg nak diberikan.. ni tak, alasan depa:
Dah captured sebagai revenue. Come on la.. Mcm aku tak tau accounting jer. Aku amik AIB la dgn Dr Noraini masa kat UIA. Aku tau gak BAFIA nyer requirement. Hibah diberi berdasarkan budi bicara bank. BAFIA atau AOIFI tak kata plak ada limit utk bagi hibah. Nak bagi lebih lagi bagus.. haha..
Let's move towards better environment. Save energy and resources. Peace!!!
assalamualaikum
huhu, so skrg ni ape2 hal pun kite tak leh lari la dari konsep riba' yang telah diperhalusi dlam sistem perbankan islam kat malaysia nie yek?huhu...i like to share this matter with all of you especially yg dah expose dgn realiti dunia perbankan islam sebenar ni, hehe. maklumlah, kat UIA dulu blajo teori je, n tu pon dah bnyk lupe. pas grad trus kuar dari mesia n lgsg tak berpeluang dealing with islamic bank to do transaction.
so, pade sape2 yang tau, ape care yg plg selamat untuk kite pilih nanti?
malik, suhaimi...
it cant be denied that islamic banks charge extra profits...but that is the disadvantage of islamic banks.. the price is fixed...and we cannot have 2 prices in one contract...kan?
come to think of it,
why do conventional banks charge lower profits? this is simply because they can adjust the price... they rely on the fluctuate interest...
in the real world, the conventional knows about the 'fixed price rule' for islamic banks..the disadvantage of the fixed price...what they do is they lower their interest rate/BLR (base lending rate) and market it to the public...as simple as that
but can u imagine where there'll be a point in time that interest rate will go high and that the conventional has to stick with the intrest rate?.. dont u think it'd be an advantage to the islamic banks?
thats one point for islamic banks cannot be that competiteve...
en.suhaimi,
siapa suruh tak bawak case personal financing kau ke court? complain kat sini tak guna... nobody would ever give a damn about it...
cube kau buat mcm case BBA tuh.. Zulkiefli vs affin tak silap aku...
sekarang pon the judge wahab patail pon dah keluar rule ape that siape2 yg default tuh mesti diberi rebate... pls alert dgn case2 semasa...
yer, aku setuju dgn lecturer kau bile die ckp kene market product yg familiar... suhaimi, banks provide services tau..bukan goods...
when it comes to services, ppl only subscribe to it because of its familiarity (kalau kau blajar consumer behaviour kau mesti tau benda nih)..
and plus, as someone who works with the bank, i know exactly how the customers would react to the services that are not familiar to them...
owh yer, berape kali aku nak...dan aku agak bengang kalau org kate islamic banks kat mesia tak being islamic.. EXCUSE ME!!! ALL ISLAMIC BANKS IN THE WHOLE WIDE UNIVERSE ARE NOT ISLAMIC..BUKAN MALAYSIA SHJ.. EVEN IN IN IRAN YG KONON NYE TAK PRACTICE RIBA!!!..aku berani cakap mcm nih sbb IVE GONE THRU THOSE PRODUCTS OFFERED BY ISLAMIC BANKS OUTSIDE MESIA AND SERIOUSLY SPEAKING, THEIR PRODUCTS ARE CRAP.. eg: tawarruq
kan dah hemo...at least mesia is being realistic ..realistic means that malaysia is adapting the islamic banks with the current economic system/banking... look at iran, they offer non riba bank to the public... but are they doing well? haaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!! their banks are even more crap than our islamic banks..
kesimpulan nye, spt kata mohd afiq... riba cannot be avoided in this current world.. i repeat.. in this CURRENT world..
conclusion no.2: jgn cerite islamic tak islamic nih la if we are still using money as commodity for our daily lives.. if u know what fractional reserve banking system is, ud know how sinful all of us are for using the money that are circulating thru out the world..
kesimpulan no.3: kalau nak islamic btol2, jgn bukak bank <-- sbb banks have to stick with the fractional reserve banking system..in simple words, the banks produce money out of the thin air based on the debts given to the people who required it. money produce out of thin air means duit tuh takde nilai.. duit tuh takde backed by any commodity.. duit tuh hanye la kertas yg di letak kan value <--- ini lagi la haram
kesimpulan no.4: the haram process of riba' takes more than a decade to be preached by the prophet to the ppl... it took 23 years for prophet to preach and spread about islam in mekah n madinah n other places close by.. so, pls dont expect islamic banks to be fully islamic or non riba' immediately..
sorry if im being harsh about this... but if u know how hard it is and how much effort that the governement/ central bank to implement/to just intro the islamic banks in mesia (knowing the fact that malaysia comprises chinese, indians or non muslims in the country and certain ppl are alergy to word islam) ud be amazed/glad at how successful islamic banks are right now..
owh yer, lagi satu point.. knp semua org dok ckp islamic banks kat mesia are not islamic...as if islamic banks kat arab tuh semua islamic la? kalau islamic banks kat arab semua konon islamic sgt.. why do arabs prefer to invest in malaysia ???
take note: islamic banks mana2 pon semua sama.. tp org lebeh emphasize kat msia tak islamic sbb the islamic banks in malaysia are doing good.. dont simply agree with ppl
dear miss hanna (lo blum kawin lg kan? xpe, trun ko x lama lagi)
the reason why in the 1st place i talk about Islamic bank in Malaysia, is because that is the islamic bank yang ada kat depan mata.. and kita x deal (org2 mesia la terutamanya) dengan bank2 luar tue (iran ke hape ke)..
most of your point to aku agree.. mcm ni la, sekarang sbb BLR rendah and the interest/profit rate yang islamic bank bagi berbeza, dimana yang profit rate tue lagi tinggi dari BLR.. kami yang memerlukan duit nie mmg la rasa kena tekan.. tapi, pelik, nape profit rate tue x bleh rendah or lebih kurang BLR? x ke naya org?
lagi satu, nie free discussion, kita nak buka minda.. like u said, Islam preach more than 23 years.. mana tau, klu betul islamic bank perlukan masa yang sama, mungkin ko, aku, sesiapa sahaja dah bleh jadi manager, or even VP kat bank, dimana klu buka mulut semua org ikut (AMIN...) kan kita dah bleh buat sesuatu masa tue.. yang penting, kita develope mind kita dulu..
Suhaimi..
mana ko tau middle east better? yang aku tau, malaysia akan jadi hub islamic banking.. in other words, malaysia akan dijadikan contoh.. x ke kita better mcm tue? hurmm
Salam Cik Hana,
There is no right or wrong view.. Tak salah bagi pandangan personally.. tak da plak unsur mengajak orang lain agree. And in fact, there is no such word/phrase in my comment "saying Islmaic Bank in Mesia not being Islamic". You may reread my comment. Maybe u yg salah baca kot..
I am aware of the case of BBA, cuma kat sini sharing experience jer. Kalu dah semua org start bawa kes ke court, you know, forever baru boleh selesai. Kes simple pun makan masa ler.. "nobody would give a damn about it"... hmmm agak kasar ayat ko ni.. Sharing pengalaman jer.. tak suke u juz ignore or dont talk about it. Bukan aku suruh ko refund aku pun.. cuma nak suruh org lain berhati2 next time.. that's all.
Sebabkan tak nak guna unsur haram ler aku duk amik Islamic loan tu.. Kalu tak ko ingat aku suka biarkan bank tu amik untung lebih? Aku need money, mungkin not for you. That's y aku concern...
Lecturer tu punye pendapat aku tak mau komen.. Macam la aku tak tau Bank provide services. Cuma mungkin ko salah tafsir ayat aku.. aku persoalkan kalu nak tiru product sedia ada, tak salah.. make it more appealing.. tak kisah la, as long as marketable. So far aku rasa ok jer product tu cuma masih menanti product primary dari ISlamic Bank... tu jer.. apa masalah Cik Hana ni.. KEcam sekecamnya.. emo semacam jer.. haha
Malik,
Aku rasa isu tu dah lama dulu2.. saja teringat nak luahkan.. kat UIA lagi masa amik FM ngan Asc Prof Dr Kameel Meera.. Sekarang tak sure la.. haha.. out of date la aku ni.. Dr Kemeel ckp dulu masa bank dari middle east nak buka cawangan skali ngan bank Islam 1990s kot.. haha.. dah lama dah.. nostalgia gittu..
Aku malas la nak komen dah, nanti Cik Hanna hentam lagi aku.. nak bagi pendapat and luahkan idea pun susah skrang ni kan.. chau chau..
hayyoo...
apa nie.. semua org xnak bagi komen la plak.. weh, korang tue member2 aku.. jgn la mcm tue.. kat dalam blog je gado, kat luar, x perlu la terasa kot.. adeh..
come on, this is the way kita nak develope our mind.. kita mungkin x nampak dari org lain punya pandangan.. mcm hanna, dia keje bank.. dia tau apa yang jadi sekarang.. tapi, dari segi pengguna, mungkin dia x.. mungkin suhaimi lagi tau, sbb baru lepas kena..
come on.. aku suka korang komen.. cuma, emo tue kurang2kan.. k.. nie untuk kita bersama, n ilmu nie gak untuk org lain baca.. so, be happy..
suhaimi,
jgn sampai aku naik atas lempang ko.. ngada2 ah.. gigit karang.. muahahah.. makan budok!!!
Oit Malik.. apa plak.. aku mana ada emo.. saper yang emo skrang ni.. aku ker Hanna.. kalu nak bidas pun, use proper languange la.. seolah2 bila dia ckp cam tu macam nobody would care about my experience. Baik aku share ngan org lain yang nak give a damn care bout it, kalu beliau does not give a damn about it. So why bother nak bgtau kan. Keep it as ur secret.. haha..
Islamic Bank kat Mesia ni is the best practice so far. Those who would like to engange into any of the products (which are services), please have proper study and choose the best one. DO NOT simply believe what is written in their contract as surely ambiguous. READ few times before signing the contract, scrutinize the info and ask advice from those who know better. (Surely not me).
Apalah sgt lempang ko tu. Tgn pun kecik.. and ko bukan kannibal pun.. haha
Oit.. giler r malik naik opiz aku betul2 plak... sorry r.. aku gurau2 jer.. bosan layan customers yang cerewet ni..
Cik Hanna jgn amik ati.. nanti En Malik santau aku plak.. ahaks..
heheh..sorry2..
aku hemo lebeh
hehhehe
heheh..sorry2..
aku hemo lebeh
hehhehe
salam..
wah..wat a discussion..
mmg kontroversi topik nih..
i think its still not too late to post a comment here.
I agree with hana when she said dat these days we r dealing with soo complex transactions smpi kita rs xde guidelines yg bole gna untuk resolve all d issues. tp kan, bila pk balik, its really important to go to the basic of whatever guidelines yg dibwk oleh our scholars and sahabat2 during Prohet's time..kalau btul phm, rsnya xde mslah nk apply to da most bombastic products pun..btul tak??
abt da profit sharing, kan skrang da ade bank cuba introduce Musyarakah Mutanaqisah product which uses the same concept. who knows in da future there wud b more products introduced to the market using da same concept..ape pun, yg penting, we as the muslim, need to support the islamic banking..n bg komen2 yg membina..
kalu dok complain je, emm gamaknye x ke mana la islamic banks kat malaysia nii..hehe watever it is, sume org ade opinion sniri. wallahu'alam...
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